Judge for yourself: Transcript of BBC Hardtalk interview with Nelson Chamisa

Sackur: Well I haven’t finished. He also passed the indigenisation and economic empowerment act which foreign investors seem to like, the foreign governments seem to like. He’s also pledged to fight what you have just described as the scourge of corruption. He said: “We have now committed to the effort to defeat corruption that plagued our nation. We gonna require cabinet ministers to declare their assets and create anti-corruption courts.

Chamisa: But….

Sackur: The man is actually delivering on a transformation?

Chamisa: In fact we are the change that delivers. Mr Mnangagwa is the change that doesn’t deliver. In fact Mr Mnangagwa represents change without the change; he represents the face of the old.

Sackur: Why do you think governments like the UK government are reaching out to Mnangagwa and suggesting that they think he’s proven to be a good leader in Zimbabwe?

Chamisa: They are reaching out to the people of Zimbabwe. Let me say this, you cannot have change without change agents. You cannot have transformation without transformers. Mr Mnangagwa is not a transformer, there can never be any reform without reformers. What he is, he is a transactional leader who has transacted a particular process in November and he’s there, not as a face of transition, not as a face transformation. We represent that change that is yet to come.

Sackur: Well you keep telling me you represent change, and I guess that is an attractive slogan for many people in your country, but there’s a difference between making promises that you can keep and making promises that are nothing more than fantasy. Let’s go through a few of yours. In January you told people of your country that you could solve Zimbabwe’s liquidity crisis in two weeks and indeed if you fail to do so, you would leave office because you said you are committed. Two weeks to solve liquidity crisis and I mean that’s nonsense.

Chamisa: It’s not nonsense. It’s very sensible. In fact that is the most credible message that has ever been received by Zimbabweans. Why am I saying so? The most fundamental issue in Zimbabwe is not a crisis of cash, but a crisis of leadership, a crisis and a deficit of confidence and trust. The issues that we are going to deal with are productivity, issues of skills transfer, and issues of investor confidence…..

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